Why Led Zeppelin Sucks, Part II
(This post was edited on 27 October to include additional chart data)
On 5 March 2005, I made the obvious and ludicrously titled post "Why Led Zeppelin Sucks" which has generated tens of thousands of hits on this blog. Two-and-a-half years later, it's still generating traffic every single day as well as random hate-mail to go along with it. I have finally decided to say more on this matter because there's obviously still massive interest in this.
I am amused because at no point did I ever actually say Led Zeppelin sucks, because quite frankly they don't. However, the people "reading" the post -- who quite clearly haven't read it -- reply with such vehemence and often vitriol, it's amazing.
First, if you think Led sucks, I will not argue with you one way or another. You certainly can have your opinion. You won't be alone, but I will surmise you will be in small company. Led is talented and there's no question about it. You can dislike them, certainly, because that is a matter of personal taste. I dislike Luciano Pavarotti, but I don't like opera. That doesn't mean he sucks or lacks amazing talent. It just means I'm not a fan. Pretty simple concept many people miss.
Then, I made a most tragic mistake of comparing them to Pink Floyd. I say tragic because of all the fighting it caused. Do I think Pink Floyd is better than Led Zeppelin? You betcha! Go read the original post and comment away if you'd like. However, it's still a matter of personal opinion. Dark Side of the Moon is, perhaps, one of the very best albums ever made. Every single song on it's very good, stands on its own, and evokes emotions. The album IV (Zoso/Runes/etc) on which Stairway to Heaven appears is a very average album overall. It happens to have one of the best songs ever created on it: only a philistine would dare say Stairway isn't one of the best rock songs ever written and I love that song. But it's one song. The album has seven other songs, and some of 'em, they ain't great: just average.
If you want to compare songs, Stairway will probably dust anything Floyd wrote -- and I am a huge Floyd fan. But if you want to compare albums and oeuvres, then Floyd will win. Their overall output was of far better quality overall. And there aren't hundreds of accusations of plagiarism over Floyd's heads, either. For the record, Led has settled several of these suits out of court, so there is merit to the accusations. (Stairway remains untouched by any allegations.)
If you want a true measure, here are the top 10 entries for the most weeks on the Billboard Top 100 charts. Note that totals are for the main albums chart only, catalog chart totals are not factored in. Please note who is in SOLE POSSESSION of first place -- remaining on the top 200 chart for 14.25 years. YEARS!
- (741 weeks) The Dark Side of the Moon — Pink Floyd
- (490 weeks) Johnny's Greatest Hits — Johnny Mathis
- (480 weeks) My Fair Lady — Original Cast
- (331 weeks) Highlights from the Phantom of the Opera — Original Cast
- (302 weeks) Tapestry — Carole King
- (295 weeks) Heavenly — Johnny Mathis
- (283 weeks) Oklahoma! — Soundtrack
- (282 weeks) MCMXC a.D. — Enigma
- (281 weeks) Metallica — Metallica
- (277 weeks) The King and I — Soundtrack
- (277 weeks) Hymns — Tennessee Ernie Ford
If you go for best-selling album of all-time in the USA, then Led and Pink are tied in third place behind Michael Jackson's Thriller and The Eagles Greatest Hits (which I refuse to count, as it's a compilation album and not an original work). If you go worldwide, then The Eagles drop down and Led drops even further.
I just had to say this because the debate will not die. But it bothers me when people say I hate Led Zeppelin. I don't. I am not a fan, but I respect them, what they've done, and can assure you both Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin will both be remembered long after rock dies*.
(*Rock will never die, dammit.)
Labels: Led Zeppelin, Music, Pink Floyd, Sucks
posted by Rev. CMOT TMPV @ 10/25/2007 06:42:00 PM (permalink)
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11 Comments:
I happen to be a fan of both Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd. Most fans of one also love the other. I have seen both bands in their prime, and as good as Floyd were, I have to say that Led Zeppelin were clearly the greatest ROCK band that ever stepped on a stage, and nobody, I mean nobody, could compete with a fully focused and firing on all cylinders Led Zeppelin. As far as the quality of their respective output, the Floyd have two undisputed gems in 'Dark Side' and 'The Wall', whereas Led Zeppelin's first six albums, it can be strongly argued, is probably the greatest streak of stellar, innovative and massively influential rock ever recorded. Zep's astounding catalogue is the masterclass of ROCK music against which all others are still measured. Does any of this mean I don't love Floyd? No. I just recognize Led Zeppelin for exactly what they are, the greatest of all rock bands.
I've never been a huge Led Zeppelin fan. I like the band, and some of their songs I enjoy a great deal, but I wouldn't describe myself as a Fan(tm). "Stairway" is of course a wonderful song.
I recognize they were an excellent, talented band that kicked several different kinds of ass in its day, but I think I own all of one Zep album (can't remember which offhand). I'm a much bigger fan of Pink Floyd.
It always amuses me when people go batshit loco when you profess to not have undying love and affection for their favorite band, even if you do say that you respect them as musicians.
Live and let live, I s--YOU DON'T LIKE PAVAROTTI?
I have always totally hated Led Zeppelin,Queen and I can't stand Pink Floyd too! They are the only music groups I have to get up off my chair even if I'm too tired,and turn off the radio immediately! Led Zeppelin and Queen are the worst bands ever and you know Led Zeppelin sounds sh*tty and you secretly probably do still feel that they do suck,and you are right!
I think you just took back and watered down the truth of what you said because you got some deaf and dumb Led Zeppelin fans sending you hate mail! You really should have stood by what you said orginally because it's true! I once found a music reviewer who said on his site he never liked Led Zeppelin and another doesn't like them that much either.
If you type on google in quotes."I hate Led Zeppelin" or I don't like Led Zeppelin" many pages where people are saying this come up! WE are *not* alone!
Anonymous obviously has no taste in music. To say that you absolutely HATE Led zep, Floyd, AND queen is just crazy talk.
Here's an AP Wire Report about the recent concert. I'd have liked to see it. Maybe they'll tour. And you know what? I'll go.
Led Zeppelin Returns After 27 Years
December 11, 2007 9:15 AM EST
LONDON - The day after Led Zeppelin's long-awaited reunion concert, the music reviewers were already calling for more.
Playing a full set for the first time in nearly three decades, the authors of "Stairway to Heaven" and "Whole Lotta Love" rocked the O2 Arena on Monday for more than two hours, leaving fans from around the world gasping in delight.
"With a synergy like this going on, it would be an act of cosmic perversity to(AP) - stop now," Pete Paphides of the Times of London wrote.
The band's three surviving members - singer Robert Plant, guitarist Jimmy Page and bassist-keyboardist John Paul Jones - were joined at the sold-out benefit show by the late John Bonham's son Jason on drums.
The 16-song set mixed the classics with the thumping "Kashmir" and the hard-rocking "Dazed and Confused," which Plant introduced by saying, "There are certain songs that have to be there, and this is one of them."
Plant's high-pitched screeches and moans filled the arena, while Page used a cello bow during the solo in "Dazed and Confused" and picked on his double-necked guitar to ring out the famous notes to "Stairway."
Although a full tour remains a mystery - Plant is reportedly due to tour with bluegrass star Alison Krauss - the band surely proved that it still had what it takes to keep an audience interested.
"Page dispensed power chords like an aged Thor lobbing down thunderbolts for kicks," Paphides wrote about "Black Dog," the band's third song of the night.
Other media also hailed the show as a success.
"They sound awesomely tight," Alexis Petridis wrote in Tuesday's Guardian. David Cheal of the Daily Telegraph said the band's "familiar old sinew and swagger were still there."
The Independent was a little less effusive in its praise, but Andy Gill did write that the call-and-response routine between Plant and Page during "Black Dog" was "one of the night's more engaging moments."
Gill also singled out Bonham, who was sitting in for his father. John Bonham died in 1980 after choking on his own vomit, leading to the band's breakup a few months later.
"Jason Bonham makes a more than merely able replacement for his father on drums: indeed, there's a stronger funk element to his playing which kicks the songs along with more elan," Gill wrote.
In the Evening Standard, John Aizlewood gave the concert five stars.
"Two hours and 10 minutes after they began 'Good Times Bad Times,' ... they had assuaged the doubts and delivered a show of breathtaking power and spine-tingling excitement," Aizlewood wrote.
The New York Times reviewer Ben Ratliff said Plant "was authoritative; he was dignified."
"As for Mr. Page, his guitar solos weren't as frenetic and articulated as they used to be, but that only drove home the point that they were always secondary to the riffs, which on Monday were enormous, nasty, glorious," Ratliff wrote.
Kim Murphy of the Los Angeles Times said the band "played the first sets with easygoing confidence. Their good humor built into triumphant intensity as the night wore on."
Daily Star writer James Cabooter may have written what all Zep fans have been thinking since the concert to honor the late Atlantic Records founder Ahmet Ertegun was announced months ago.
"Led Zep were pure class," he wrote. "Now bring on the full reunion tour."
I've been one of those Ledheads that annoyed you back in highschool (drawing the four symbols in all my textbooks) for about twenty years. When I first encountered criticism of Zep I noticed how little of it was dispassionate. If someone didn't like Zeppelin, they REALLY didn't like them. Contrarily though, Zeppelin has the fanatical fans of any group in history. It literally is the biggest cult band ever, if not the biggest band ever, period.
Some of the criticism is fair. Some simply don't like the music, or more specifically that kind of music. For instance, if someone hates Zeppelin they are likely to hate Aerosmith as well. However, with some people, and especially some rock critics, the hatred is personal and malicious. I recall the Rolling Stone critic who reviewed the album "Led Zeppelin II". He basically mocked the band with ever word he wrote, without bothering to give any sort of honest critique or appraisal of the songs. The same snarky reviewer has since said that there isn't a trace of harmony, musical expression, or wit to be found in the band's music. This sort of "critique" is completely without merit, and totally discredits someone like the aforementioned assclown. No one could honestly say the band had no talent or musical ability. To do so is simple intellectual dishonesty motivated by something other than a dislike of the music. This IMHO is Zep's alienation from the socio-political movement of the sixties. They didn't make protest music. They weren't trying to change the culture. They wrote about things such as lemon squeezing and Scandinavian legends. In other words, they didn't carry the torch of hippydom, and music critics savaged them for it.
Hey Reggie:
That was a great post. Intelligent, well thought out, etc. I wish all the people posting on the original thread would actually THINK instead of shouting at each other.
-- E
Led Zeppelin sucks ass..period just hyped/overrated band who people listen to.. I cant stand listening to Stairway to Heaven..song is garbage IMO
Pink Floyd first and for most is infinitely better than Led Zeppelin, of course that is my opinion which I am entitled to. In your comment you wrote that "Stairway to Heaven" was probably a better song than any song Pink Floyd wrote but only being one song. No this is false, Zeppelin's best tune is "When the Levee Breaks" because it was good enough for the Beastie Boys to loop it and make an awesome song out of. My test for music greatness is easy, if you get bored listening to it after a short time then it isn't that good. Now with all that said I do like Led Zeppelin however, I think that at heart they are a blues folk band and they do not play the greatest blues, like say Stevie Ray Vaughan. I think Pink Floyd songs transcend music because they put you in a different state of mind and invoke thought, much like King Crimson and other Progressive Rock bands. I think nowadays its cool to say, yah Led Zeppelin is the coolest band ever and they're so good but most are ill informed and only know the hits. If you like Zeppelin just go back a few years before them and listen to some older folk and blues bands and you'll get what I'm saying. And I will argue with anyone that David Gilmour is a better guitarist than Jimmy Paige. Hell I'll say Robert Fripp is a better guitarist than Jimmy Paige.
Zeppelin is an above average band, but nowhere near as good as people say.
The guitarist is pretty good, but several modern day guitarists can easily show him up. The rest of the band is very average, but I do think the singer is horrible.
If they had a better singer, then the band would be a whole lot better.
In all, they are a very overrated band, but a very good band.
I hate their song "Stairway to Heaven," but the song "Rock and Roll" is pretty darn good.
It's fairly common in my experiences that people like the music they grew up with in their formative adolescent years. I'm not saying people don't continue to grow and mature in their musical tastes, but most hold hold an attraction to that formative music.
Led Zeppelin IV seemed to have a special appeal as a favorite "stoner" LP. Perhaps the Celtic mysticism references and those crunching power chords hit the pleasure zone for many who gathered under their high school bleachers on break getting stoned while the jocks and jock chicks played on the "other side". I don't care if Pink Floyd is your gold standard (I liked them a lot too), Zep was much better than detractors specious reviews. Critics want R & B rock steeped in Robert Johnston that strictly obeys their preconceived precepts of Rockdom - fine. I can listen for hours to Buddy Guy and Junior Wells ripping it up and appreciate their authenticity, but I can dig Zep for what they accomplished too (even though the Grant studio wizardry played a big part of the magic). I went to Floyd and Zep shows back in the day (yeah, I'm that old), and depending on ones mental state, both bands were good live, but their studio released output was better. Will I pay through the nose to catch a Zep reunion stateside concert? You better believe it. Recapturing even a glimpse of the vibes from my teens is worth every penny.
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